The Best of Theforge

Volume 3 of 3

Compiled and edited by: Ron Reil

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Note: Multiple articles within a topic are separated by " ******** " between each article. Also, the links to other related resources only link to the page, not to the numbered resource. You will need to scroll down to the listed resource entry. In some cases additional unlinked information may be included in the various "Misc. Information" topics.

Index of Topics

113. FIREPLACE SCREEN AND GLASS (Also Vol. 1, #28)

114. TOOL SOURCES AND PLANS (Also Vol. 1, #14, 55, 59 & Vol. 2, #68)

115. LINING A FORGE PAN (Also Vol. 1, #13 &Vol. 2, #107)

116. TWISTS AND WEAVES

117. METAL INFORMATION AND SOURCES (Also Vol. 1, #21, 25, 60 & Vol. 2, #74)

118. TORCHES CONTINUED

119. CLEANING METAL SURFACES (Also Vol. 2, #71)

120. LEAVES (Also Vol. 1, #49 &Vol. 2, #90)

121. SUPERQUENCH CONTINUED (Also Vol. 1, #26 &Vol. 2, #108)

122. WELDING MACHINES AND ROD & SUPPLIES (Also Vol. 1, #4 &Vol. 2, #98)

123. TREADLE HAMMERS CONTINUED (Also Vol. 1, #61 &Vol. 2, #75)

124. FORGE WELDING FLUX CONTINUED (Also Vol. 1, #6, 42 & Vol. 2, #93)

125. BOOKS CONTINUED (Also Vol. 1, #5, 46 &Vol. 2, #91)

126. BLACKSMITH PROFILES

127. MISC. SUPPLY SOURCES (Also Vol. 1, #14 &Vol. 2, #68)

128. METAL FINISHES CONTINUED (Also Vol. 1, #35 &Vol. 2, #99, 109)

129. POWER HAMMERS CONTINUED (Also Vol. 1, #18 &Vol. 2, #84)

130. GAS FORGES CONTINUED (Also Vol. 1, #59 &Vol. 2, #73)

131. SWAGES AND FULLERS CONTINUED (Also Vol. 2, #105)

132. RAILROAD IRON (Also Vol. 1, #17, 26 &Vol. 2, #97)

133. PATTERN WELDED STEEL (Also Vol. 1, #16, 47)

134. BENDING TUBE CONTINUED (Also Vol. 2, #111)

135. FOUNDRY (Also Vol. 1, #8, 9, 11, 15)

136. ANVILS AND ANVIL REPAIR CONTINUED (Also Vol. 1, #36 &Vol. 2, #79)

137. TINNING

138. FORGING FRUIT AND VEGETABLES (Also Vol. 1, #49 & Vol. 2, #90)

139. DRILLING AND PUNCHING HOLES

140. BRAZING

141. HYDRAULIC FORGING PRESS

142. SUPER GLUE & SPLIT FINGERS

END OF LIST

*** See also Volumes 1&2 for more resource information. ***


FIREPLACE SCREEN AND GLASS: (See Also Vol. 1 & 2)

Jim

Hi Just saw your email to roger. I did a set of fire doors a while

back.Check and see if your glass supplier can get you a product called

pryoceram It is far superior to tempered glass. It is expensive but

well worth it.I used 3/16" clear.

Jim B.

Return to Index


TOOL SOURCES, INFORMATION, AND PLANS: (See Alos Vol. 1&2)

I just noticed a mail list that may be of interest of those here, it's

called "steel-talk". It relates to issues involving the steel industry, but

also other steel related matters.

Send to get info about "steel-talk",

To: [email protected]

Message: INFO steel-talk.

The list administrator is a contributing editor for "Iron Age/New Steel"

magazine.

David

Graphic Design/Illustration; http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/

Environmental Links; http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/environ.html

mailto:[email protected]

****************

> Also does anyone know of plans for some type of torch holder mechanism that

> would allow the operator to guide the torch freeform (not just straight or

> in perfect circles) and keep the tip perpendicular and at the proper

> clearance from the metal. I am thinking of something with arms and operates

> independent of the metal being cut.

Ken:

I can make a suggestion on this aspect of your post. It's called a

pantograph. There are commercial versions available but once you see one

they're easy enough to build. If you want to build your own, I'd suggest

one of the pantograph toys as a model, they're relatively cheap and work

just fine.

You operate one by tracing a pattern, shape, etc with a stylus connected

to one arm of the device and the torch copies the movement from the end

of another arm, they're strictly mechanical devices of multiple levers.

Pantographs will enlarge and reduce depending on the setting. They're

not the best for production runs but are hard to beat for one-offs from

patterns or copying shapes.

Regards,

Frosty

***************

[email protected] wrote:

> I read an interesting article in the California smiths newsletter

> about a 'home built' hydraulic press. Unfortunately the photos

> were of poor quality. Does anyone have or know of plans

> for this sort of thing?

Jim Batson sells plans for his press (an excellent design BTW). I

believe that they are listed in the FAQ. If you decide to build one, you

might check out my site as I have some interesting tooling for the hyd.

press under the "Sculptor" section.

Lee Marshall

Bonny Doon Engineering http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com

*****************

At 1:30 PM 10/23/96, Lee Marshall wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> I read an interesting article in the California smiths newsletter

>> about a 'home built' hydraulic press. Unfortunately the photos

>> were of poor quality. Does anyone have or know of plans

>> for this sort of thing?

>Jim Batson sells plans for his press (an excellent design BTW). I

Jim Batson's address is 176 Brentwood Lane, Madison, AL 35758, 205- 971-6860.

He is here thru Friday teaching a Bladesmithing class at John C. Campbell

Folk School.

His plans are about $25 or so.

Clay

****************

What kind of hammer are you looking for? We can supply you with just

about anything you need, Swedish, French, (German are on the way in),

specialty planishing, raising, sinking hammers, swage blocks, firepots,

chisels, tongs-Wolfs jaw, round, flat, half round, bolt, Vjaw. Tool

list available via fax or US Mail upon request. Steve Kayne, 100 Daniel

Ridge Rd, Candler, NC 28715 (704) 665-1988 or 667-8868 or fax (704)

665-8303

***************

Here's an old post from Bob with the address & ph info - I have been saving

it to follow up and get me one of them puppies.

Kit

Another alternative to the Hossfeld bender is available from:

American Bending Supply

c/o Joe Banicki

663 Wilson St.

Winona, Mn. 55987

507-454-5943

This bender is an exact copy of the Hossfeld (also made in Winona). Joe

Banicki worked there and started ABS a few years ago. He offers all the

dies Hossfeld has with the exception of the angle iron dies. The pins are

all hardened just like the Hossfeld. The dies and other parts are

interchangeable with the Hossfeld. The American Bending Supply benders and

dies are 30%-50% lower than Hossfeld.

I have no connection with ABS except that Joe may buy me a beer if he sells

a lot of benders. Tell him I sent you.

Bob Schade

>>I got lucky today, I think, and acquired a used No. 2 Hossfeld bender

>>mounted on a cabinet. Unfortunatly little or no tooling/dies came with it.

>>Does anyone know of a source of used dies etc.? Will the dies/tooling for

>>the benders made by American Bending Inc. work with the No. 2? Has anyone

>>made or seen articles on how to make your own dies for this bender? Any

>>help, suggestions, ideas etc. will be greatly appreciated.

>>Take care,

>>Roger W. Schmitt

>Roger,

>All dies made by American Bending Supply in Winona, Minnesota (also the

>home of Hossfeld) will work in the Hossfeld Bender. American has all the

>dies except the angle iron dies. Their prices are 30%-50% lower than

>Hossfeld.

>Hope this helps.

>Bob Schade

Kit Wohl

[email protected]

***************

>Subject: STAKES

>My name is Christopher McLaughlin

>I am from Glasgow Scotland and I have moved to the U.S.. I have been here a

>few weeks in Oklahoma and love it . The people here are very nice and the

>weather a wee bit warmer. I have got my smithy set up but could not afford to

>bring every thing over with me. My brother is still running the shop over in

>glasgow and I am starting one here. We are blacksmiths and armourers we can

>shoe a horse but why thats what our cousins get paid for. I brought a forge 2

>anvils and shop tools over the shipping killed me but the crate with the

>stakes never made it.

>I am needing a Mushroom head stake , ball head stake and oval head stake

>If any one has any thay want to sell or will make for sale please let me know

>I may be needing some other tools . Thats what happens when you dont check

>your crate twice when you pack.

>[email protected]

>[email protected]

>Highland Forge

Try these:

Casting Specialties, W 51 N 545 Struck Lane, Cedarburg, WIS 53012,

(414-377-4361): Cast semi steel hammer set; unfinished (94.00), also set of

T stakes, 8 for $130 and vertical set at $102. Can be hard to get hold of

but I have a set and so do others. The price is right even if the service

may be a little loose.

Dixie EMS catalog, PO Box 55549, Houston, Texas, 77255, USA: Medical and

safety equipment like you never knew existed, great prices on band aids and

medical aids.

Industrial Pipe and Steel, 9936 E. Rush Street, So. El Monte, CA 91733,

(714-523-4191): Machine tools for metal-working of all kinds, cheap quality

miniature lathes.

Williams Low Buck Tools, 4175 California, Norco, CA 91760, (714-735-7848):

Stock car building tools, great prices on sturdy tools, lever punch press

for standard dies.

Also the Society of American Silversmiths site has tools for sale.

Charles

Brain Press

Box 1624, Ste M, Calgary, Alberta, T2P 2L7, Canada

Tel: 403-263-3955 Fax: 403-283-9053 Email: [email protected]

Metals info download web site: http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/tip_sear.htm

Product descriptions: http://www.ganoksin.com/kosana/brain/brain.htm

Links list hosted at the Metal Web News:

http://tbr.state.tn.us/~wgray/jewelry/jewelry-link.html

**************

For stakes and other blacksmith tools CALL Ron Bishop (313)483-5909

At 08:41 AM 1/23/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Mark and others:

>This showed up on theforge, and no one answered. I know you can help and

>perhaps there's an okie out there who can make him feel welcome. Thanks.

>Mac

>From: [email protected][SMTP:[email protected]]

>Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 1997 8:52 AM

>To: [email protected]

>Subject: STAKES

>Hello to all

>My name is Christopher McLaughlin

>I am from Glasgow Scotland and I have moved to the U.S.. I have been here a

>few weeks in Oklahoma and love it . The people here are very nice and the

>weather a wee bit warmer. I have got my smithy set up but could not afford to

>bring every thing over with me. My brother is still running the shop over in

>glasgow and I am starting one here. We are blacksmiths and armourers we can

>shoe a horse but why thats what our cousins get paid for. I brought a forge 2

>anvils and shop tools over the shipping killed me but the crate with the

>stakes never made it.

>

>I am needing a Mushroom head stake , ball head stake and oval head stake

>

>If any one has any thay want to sell or will make for sale please let me know

>

>I may be needing some other tools . Thats what happens when you dont check

>your crate twice when you pack.

****************

At 11:10 PM 1/31/97 -0500, you wrote:

>A friend of mine asked for the name and address etc. of the company that

>produces the copy of the Hossfeld bender. It was mentioned here on the list

>before but I never kept the info. Sorry for the duplicated effort, but if

>some one could post the info I would appreciate it.

>thanks

>Chris Ray

The following was posted a while back by Bob Schade:

Another alternative to the Hossfeld bender is available from:

American Bending Supply

c/o Joe Banicki

663 Wilson St.

Winona, Mn. 55987

507-454-5943

This bender is an exact copy of the Hossfeld (also made in Winona). Joe

Banicki worked there and started ABS a few years ago. He offers all the

dies Hossfeld has with the exception of the angle iron dies. The pins are

all hardened just like the Hossfeld. The dies and other parts are

interchangeable with the Hossfeld. The American Bending Supply benders and

dies are 30%-50% lower than Hossfeld.

I have no connection with ABS except that Joe may buy me a beer if he sells

a lot of benders. Tell him I sent you.

Bob Schade

**************

>>A friend of mine asked for the name and address etc. of the company that

>>produces the copy of the Hossfeld bender.

>>Chris Ray

>The following was posted a while back by Bob Schade:

>Another alternative to the Hossfeld bender is available from:

>American Bending Supply

>c/o Joe Banicki

>663 Wilson St.

>Winona, Mn. 55987

>507-454-5943

Please note name and address change; American Bending Inc.

1175 E. Broadway

P.O. Box 64

Winona, MN 55987

507-452-4955 phone

507-452-7318 fax

>This bender is an exact copy of the Hossfeld (also made in Winona). Joe

>Banicki worked there and started ABS a few years ago. He offers all the

>dies Hossfeld has with the exception of the angle iron dies. The pins are

>all hardened just like the Hossfeld. The dies and other parts are

>interchangeable with the Hossfeld. The American Bending Supply benders and

>dies are 30%-50% lower than Hossfeld.

>I have no connection with ABS except that Joe may buy me a beer if he sells

>a lot of benders. Tell him I sent you.

>Bob Schade

Return to Index


LINING A FORGE PAN: (Also See Vol. 1&2)

Frost, Jerry wrote:

> The liner for the cast iron Buffalo forge was what I was thinking of

> when I wrote the fiberglass idea and I don't believe it will get above

> melting temperature of glass. Heat checking is the greatest concern on

> this forge, somebody cracked the pan by not lining it. Ramming the liner

> up almost dry, sintering, (I believe that's the right term) actually

> takes care of all the shrink checking from drying and greatly reduces

> heat checking.

>

> I've tried adding sand to the fire clay and maybe it's the kind of sand

> I used but clinker really tended to stick to it, much more so than the

> plain clay.

>

> It's not anxiety over checking, I'm just lazy. When I line a forge I

> want it to last as long as possible, I'd rather be using it than working

> on it.

Allowing clay to dry very slowly by covering it with plastic and airing

it out occasionally can prevent cracking during this stage if you are

having trouble with that. The sticking can be remedied by coating after

first firing with kiln wash (1\3 kaolin, 1\3 flint, 1\3 alumina hydrate

and water to cream consistancy, or this can be purchased at a clay

supplier). I am wondering if the shrinkage after firing causes it to

pull away from the sides too far, in which case you would want to make

the thing slightly larger depending on the shrinkage rate of the clay

you are using.

Clay is reinforced with something called grog which comes in a variety

of mesh sizes. The sand will change the chemical composition of the

clay giving very unpredictable results as sand from different sources

varies. I don't know what kind of fireclay you are using but it can

range in temperature about 2200F-2800F. Stoneware clay is in this range

and is sometimes called fireclay. I have books of recipes of this stuff

if anyone wants it but the easiest thing to do is just buy it from a

clay supplier. My favorite is Laguna Clay Co. in Florida

(1-800-432-CLAY). They have a tech department that can answer specific

questions about your application.

Hope this helps...

Keep warm,

Cynthia

***************

From: Matt Balent/HCS/CSC on 01/27/97 07:47 AM

I used a material called 'Plycast 3000' to line my cast iron forge

this past summer. After proper curing it has held up under fairly

constant (2-3 times a week for 3-6 hours each time) use ( I burn

commercial coke) very well (no cracks, shrinkage, gouges,

crumbling, etc).

Matt

**************

On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, Ron Reil wrote:

> I noticed a post in the Metal.rec news group about lining the pan of a

> small riveter's forge. The fellow said that he had used a compound of fire

> clay, Portland cement, and sand. I just picked up a really fine condition

> little forge of this type and am restoring it. It had not occurred to me to

> line it with a refractory material, but this sounds like an excellent idea.

> Besides the clay/cement/sand mixture, is there any other compounds that

> would be fairly resistant to abrasion that would do a good job for this

> purpose? They would need to adhere well to the metal of the pan. Any

> suggestions would be appreciated.

There is high strength refractory cement, which is similar to portland

cement. It is reinforced with tiny stainless needles. You can also use

a higher cost plastic-like 'ram' mix that you ram into shape.

Return to Index


TWISTS AND WEAVES:

Frost, Jerry wrote:

> > HEy folks

> > Anyone got a line on a twister.????

> > Im looking for a square bar twister for working iron?

One of the cleanest approaches that I ever saw for twisting bar was a

large (and I mean large) right angle gear reducer with a 5 hp motor on

it. In line with the shaft was a pair of angle-irons (20'long) with the

peaks toward each other. They were separated about 6 inches and held

apart by 'C' brackets. Strung between the angles were a series of

sliding supports for the bar. At the far end was a square socket to

accept the tag end of the bar.

A bar was loaded in the support brackets, which were then spaced out

along the length of the bar, and the motor was turned on. The socket at

the far end was on a slider, and slick as a whistle, one twisted bar,

pretty darn straight.

> What's wrong with you? Choosing THAT thread to ask a serious question

> on. ;)

Come On! Whadda ya mean? I ain't no blacksmith!

Lee Marshall

Bonny Doon Engineering http://www.bonnydoonengineering.com

****************

I've got a great weave using 1\4 inch round. I discovered it by accident when

I was trying to make a thick copper twist out of thin copper wire.

measure 4 :1/4 x 24 rods

weld together both ends as two pairs

twist both pairs seperatly in the same direction

put the pair together and weld both ends

now twist in the oppisite direction

You won't believe what happens.

It looks like a woven chain

watch it while you untwist it

you can get a loose open look or a tight compact look

enjoy

Marc3

Marc of the Hammer

Return to Index


METAL INFORMATION AND SOURCES: (See Also Vol. 1&2)

Cynthia writes:

> I wanted to ask the list what you do when you find that you need a third

> hand at the anvil, besides hiring an assistant. Is there some sort of

> device I should know about, do you invent and fabricate your own

> clamping jig sort of thing or do you use your foot (for the more

> flexible among us)?

> Cynthia

> TX

I use a kind of "hold-down" that's pretty simple. Take a piece of 3/8

or 1/2 or whatever. Flatten one end out, come back a bit and bend it a

bit more than 90 degrees. It ends up looking about like a "7" with the

stem being straight, the flattened tip is on the crosspiece of the 7.

Drop the stem of the 7 into the pritchell hole. Notice the angle the

flattend piece makes with the anvil. Bend in a smooth curve so it bears

against the anvil face. Put what you want to hold on the anvil. Drop

the 7 on it so the flat piece holds it. Tap the bend lightly with your

hammer. It wedges into the hole. To release, tap the bottom of the

stem. Oh, by the way, it helps to make the stem long enough to go

through the hole. You can make bigger ones that go through the hardy

hole if the pritchell hole ones don't hold enough.

A friend who's a woodworker came over to have something fixed the other

day. He saw the hold down, and decided it was time for him to learn a

bit of ironworking. His project was a bunch of these hold downs. They

work great in a 2" thick woodworker's bench, too!

/-\

/ |

/ |

\_/ |

=========== |

-------------------|||----------

||| |

||| |

||| |

--- | ---------

/ |

/

/

Here's as close as I can come with an ASCII drawing.

Morgan

***************

> Are VW torision bars air hardening steel?

The front ones are. (Or were as of the last Beetle I took

apart.) They're a compound spring, made up of several pieces of

(aprox) 1/8" x 1/2" and 1/8" x 3/4" strips. The rear ones are solid round

about 1" dia.

> Do you happen to know what kind of steel?

Nope. Fresh from the car, you can put one of the strips in a vise and

bend it 180 degrees and let go. I goes Boinnnng-FWOP-fwop-fwop-fwip

without breaking. Heat it orange, cool it in air, put it in the vise and

bend it 10 degrees: plink! it snaps off.

- Mike

URL: http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/mspencer/home.html

*****************

To All,

Stainless is a minimum of 15% alloy which means that it ies tough even when hot.

To make it stainless again, if it is 300 series, heat to 1800*F for a few

minutes and quench in water. Nothing special here just cool it fast. Then

remove all of the scale and oxide by whatever method you like, sand blasting,

wire brushing, acid etching, etc. Then wash with 30% or so nitric acid. This

will passivate the surface and you now have stainless again.

Safety first,

Hochewa

*****************

To All,

To go down to your local steel supply store and ask for "some" steel would

open you up to getting a whole lot of stuff that you know little about. I was

remiss in not stating that CDA 655 or CA - C65500, high silicon bronze "A",

forges like a dream. In the nonferrous alloys, those alloys that cast well

may not forge well. If you can get the same stuff that forges and casts well

you will have a lot of fun at scrap prices. If not you get more scrap.

Hochewa

*****************

To All,

1005 steel is about as close as you can get to pure not wrought iron as you can get.

It forges with real ease, it rusts just like most any other steel and it can

be forge welded. Fluxing is necessary but it will not burn as the burning

temperature decreases with increasing carbon. 1005 is a real find.

Wrought iron from the UK is made as a demo at the Ironbridge Gorge Museum.

They would like to make it a paying proposition but their market is limited

as it is expensive. Keep it alive, buy some.

Hochewa

***************

To All,

1005/1006 is mainly used as sheet stock for auto bodies and fridges.

HR bar stock is not usually available except as cold finished bar.

1018 is also available as CF bar. You have to work it all over to get

the HRS look.

Hochewa

Return to Index


TORCHES CONTINUED: (See Also Vol. 2)

Clint Jakson wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:

> > Clint Jackson wrote (LOUDLY!!!):

> > > A FLAME SPRAY TORCH DOES A WONDERFUL JOB OF BUILDUP AND PUTS IT ON EVENLY.

> > Clint, could you please explain this in detail, are you talking about

> > something done with an oxy-acet. rig, or is this different

> > equipment/procedures...

> > many thanks

> > Lee

> It is.They call it flame spray powder buildup. What it does is melt the

> powdered metal(or other substance)

> and fuses it to the base metal forming one peice. The bond will not

> break if you put it on correctly.

> There are two companies that make the oxy-act flame torch that I know

> of.The first is UPT in Houston. It does evevy thing from plastic coating

> metal to zinc plating. Unforunatly it cost around $3500.

>

> The other is made be Victor. It is not nearly as cool as the UPT torch

> but I think I paid under $200 for the whole outfit. I've done lots of

> mild steel build up with it, lots of nickel build up on my Little Giant

> and a good bit of hardfacing. This is what Victor says it will do and it

> does it very well.

>

> With some expermenting I have figured out how to do copper plating on

> steel inorder to do patinas, and (with all risk known) zinc plating

> (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS).

>

> The process for buildup is simple.The torch looks like a standard two

> piece rosebub except it has a trigger and a fitting for the powder

> bottle. You choose the metal powder for the job, screw it on and fire it

> up. Start off by preheating the piece to 400 deg., spray a light coating

> of powder on the piece(to protect from oxidizing)then pick where you

> want to start.

>

> Work the torch over the spot just like brazing but when the surfice

> "wets", pull the trigger, work fast moving the torch in circular motions

> just like running stick rods. If you get into trouble or get to the end

> let of the trigger.The build up is fast so work quick

>

> It takes a little practice but it should come quick.You can lay on

> buildup 3/16" thick and as smooth and level as glass. I've always do it

> that way to cut down on clean up and machining.

>

> Hope this helps.

> If you need more just give me a yell.

> We have done lots a different porjects with it and have learned alot a

> thing you can do with it that Victor won't tell you about.

> Clint

****************

>> There are two companies that make the oxy-act flame torch that I know

>> of.The first is UPT in Houston. It does evevy thing from plastic coating

>> metal to zinc plating. Unforunatly it cost around $3500.

This is something called the Eutalloy Process created by Eutectic-Castolin

(http://www.eutectic-usa.com/). This process uses a specially designed

oxy-acetylene tourch to spray deposit a wide variety of alloys onto a base

metal. The alloy powders come in a small bellows shaped bottle that

attaches to the top of the torch and sprays through the tip and flame. The

process is mostly used for wear and abrasion resistance and surface

hardening. The powders air harden anywhere between Rc36 and Rc96 depending

on the alloy. The problem is that Ive heard the stuff sells for about $220

/lb. Pretty steep, but for its designed purpose (gears, screws, valves, cams

etc.) its probably cheapr than tearing the machine apart to replace parts

all the time. I watched the air compressor repairmen at US Steel rebuild the

valve lifter rods on a 250hp compressor using this process. They said the

first application of this stuff lasted over 10 years vs a normal rod at 3-5

years.

mike

***************

Ross and Karen Holden wrote:

> > > There are two companies that make the oxy-act flame torch that I know

> > > of.The first is UPT in Houston. It does evevy thing from plastic coating

> > > metal to zinc plating. Unforunatly it cost around $3500.

> > > The other is made be Victor. It is not nearly as cool as the UPT torch

> > > but I think I paid under $200 for the whole outfit. I've done lots of

> > > mild steel build up with it, lots of nickel build up on my Little Giant

> > > and a good bit of hardfacing. This is what Victor says it will do and it

> > > does it very well.

All States makes an oxy propane powder spray setup also. I have three

oxy-acet rigs and haven't fired one up since I bought the oxy-prop rig.

It does everything except weld much better than oxy-acet and costs about

02% as much to operate. The basic torch set costs around $600 but paid

for itself twice over before I emptied my first 20lb bottle of propane.

Frosty

Return to Index


CLEANING METAL SURFACES: (See Also Vol. 1&2)

Ron Reil wrote:

> You might try "Naval Jelly" on the rust. I have not had much experience

> with it, but perhaps someone else on the list has. What do you say Frosty?

> That was a real bummer, sorry to hear of your problems.

> Ron

Naval jelly works very well. The active ingredient is phosphoric acid

and reduces the rust completely but if you leave it on too long it can

pit the metal. When it's turned black, rinse with water and neutralize

with baking soda solution, dry thouroughly and oil. I prefer LPS-2 or

LPS-3 to WD-40 for rust prevention, they leave a waxy film that doesn't

go away.

I've used both Naval Jelly and phosphoric acid to restore hopelessly

rusted tools, the results can be stunningly successful. I found a little

flatter 1 1/8" square face, so rusted out it looked like an orange book.

I dropped it in a bowl of naval jelly for about 3 hours and when I took

it out it looked like it just came out of the mold. You can see the sand

casting marks, trade mark, it's perfect.

Phosphoric acid is trickier and more dangerous, you have to dilute it to

less than 3% and it will etch if left imersed too long. Remember, acid

into water only!

Frosty

> > Subject: Rust and Locks

> > Date: Tuesday, January 14, 1997 4:36 PM

> >

> > Hello in the warm south

> > My Industrial Arts Lab suffered a rather wet blow over Christmas. The temps

> > where -35 and the water pipes broke. All my tools and machines (esp. my

> > machine lathe) got a thorough soaking with hot water. As you may guess

> > everything is covered in rust. I've been working with a wire brush, wd40,

> > and elbow grease. Is there anything better?

> > Doug

Return to Index


LEAVES: (See Also Vols. 1&2)

I asked this question on the forge list a while back and got a very

interesting reply to make leaves by flattening out lag bolts. I made

some and they came out on the abstract side somewhat resembling road

kill centipede. I really like them and they fit right into what I was

doing.

Cynthia

Return to Index


SUPERQUENCH CONTINUED: (See Also Vol. 1&2)

Steven O. Smith wrote:

> > Can anyone tell me the Formula for Gunther's quench for mild steel and at

> > what temperature I should take the plunge?

> > --Doug Hays & Penny Cash

> > [email protected]

> > http://hayscash.com

> 5 pounds of salt

> 5 gallons of water

> 32oz of Dawn dishwashing detergent

> 8 oz of Shaklee Basic I Detergent

>

> The original formula called for blue Dawn; somebody asked Rob (now

> that Dawn is green) whether the color made a difference. The blue

> stuff used to turn yucky green when spent--that is the only

> difference.

> Steven O. Smith

> [email protected]

Every time I see this posted it is followed by a question of where to

get Basic I. Don Asbee tells me that Simple Green, available at

Wal-Mart, does the same thing and is dead loads cheaper and more

available.If you gotta have the real thing call Marilyn at

1-800-878-6904 -- she used to advertise in my Rural Missouri magazine,

sells Shaklee products.

Jim McCarty

****************

On Jan 7, 11:06am, Keith Foster wrote:

> Subject: Gunthers Secret Quench

> Does anyone have handy the formula for Rob Gunther's Quench? I lost my copy.

> Keith Foster

5 lbs salt

32 oz blue Dawn liquid detergent

8 oz Shaklee Basic I

Enough water to make 5 gal of solution

Rob has said the new formulation of Dawn doesn't affect the quench and that

small differences in the amount of Dawn (since the new bottles contain less

than 32 oz) should not affect the quench, either.

Quench at 1550 F. Make sure to stir the solution before using.

Mark

***************

Ed Harper wrote:

> There is a wetting agent, I think its called Sparkle in the laundry section

> at a grocery store to put in a auto dish washer to eliminate spots.

> This is what I substituted for the shaklee wetting agent. It seems to

> work OK.

> Ed Harper

Perhaps another subsitute wetting agent could be Calgon. The wetting

agent ingredient is or was, sodium haxametaphosphate, when I was working

in the soils lab.

Frosty

****************

Steven O. Smith wrote:

> > When quenching, say a chisel do you bring it to cherry red

> > quench it, then watch for the colors to run and when you get

> > the color you want quench the whole thing, or do you just

> > heat and quench when useing Gunthers Quench?

>

> When the colors run, you are tempering the steel (lower hardness,

> greater toughness). This approach is not needed when using Superquench

> as most folks do. Mild steel will toughen and to a certain extent

> harden in Superquench, but nowhere near hard enough to need tempering.

> Axel steel (according to Rob Gunter) will harden in Superquench

> sufficiently to make things like hammers out of with no tempering

> needed. Superquench is not recommended for steels with much more

> carbon than axel steel (1040) due to cracking problems.

>

> On the other hand, experiment. Maybe you will find some higher carbon

> steels that harden nicely in Superquench (with tempering following).

>

> > Can anyone tell me how to harden and temper jackhammer bits?

> > Or what ever the process is for sharpening and reharding foe use.

> > Can Gunther's Quench be used?

>

> Do not use Superquench on carbon steels that will make good edge tools

> with normal hardening/quenching approaches. Superquench is designed to

> get more hardness out of lower carbon steel than plain water quench.

> It will get more hardness out of jackhammer bits, too--they will

> shatter.

> Steven O. Smith

> [email protected]

Good point Steve. I see a lot of folks quenching everything under the

sun in this stuff when it just isn't necessary for tool steels. Using

this quench must be a painful experience for the steel as mine screams

when it goes in. I have a mild steel hardy quenched in the solution that

has held up for 4 years now. I have to be careful not to get it too hot

and I have had to requench twice.

--

Jim McCarty

****************

For those who do not have access to a Shaklee dist, Amway calls their

product L.O.C. I have no idea what it stands for. Runs about $8 a bottle

from either. Tom

On Tue, 7 Jan 1997, Frost, Jerry wrote:

> Ed Harper wrote:

> > There is a wetting agent, I think its called Sparkle in the laundry section

> > at a grocery store to put in a auto dish washer to eliminate spots.

> > This is what I substituted for the shaklee wetting agent. It seems to

> > work OK.

> > Ed Harper

> > [email protected]

> > May your hammer strike hard

> > Your tongs be nimble

> > and your blows always true

> Perhaps another subsitute wetting agent could be Calgon. The wetting

> agent ingredient is or was, sodium haxametaphosphate, when I was working

> in the soils lab.

> Frosty

Return to Index


WELDING MACHINES ROD AND SUPPLIES:

>While we're on the subject, Have any of you repaired a cast iron forge

>successfully, and if so how?

I've reapired various cast iron items using a welding rod by the name of

"Blue Max" - It's a high nickel content rod by Crown. About a dollar

apiece. This is the best rod I have ever seen for this purpose, and a dream

to weld with. They work for me. (And no, I don't sell them).

Good luck to you.

Bill Wyant

[email protected]

**************

<< Any experience with the "solar" types? Recommendations to Santa? >>

Dave: a single AA battery lasts forever on the Jackson helmet, so to save the

difference between a battery pack and solar would take years. Go for the

Jackson or comparable. The Jackson technology is working just fine right

now. It's simple and straightforward. No extra solar lens to get cracked or

soiled beyond functionality.

Chris Ray

********************

How can I weld wrought iron electrically?

>There is a rod called Missile weld that will do it..

>Darrel

Yes, Missile rod is great for joining dissimilar metals. Also stainless

steel types because of the nickel content. Nickel because it doesn't form

with carbon in the form of realtively hard and brittle carbides.

Valerie Weihman

****************

Kenneth Gastineau wrote:

> I am preparing to build a press frame for a 60 ton hydraulic press. I will

> be welding 3" x 1/4" square tube to 2" plate steel.

> I am planning to use 7018 welding rod. Would this be strong enough?

> What would be the best electrode to use for superior strength.?

> What setting? AC or DC and what amperage?

> The welder I have is a Miller AC/DC "stick" welder.

> Thanks

> Kenneth Gastineau

> [email protected]

Kenneth:

Use FRESH/NEW 1/8" 7018, DC @ 90-100 amps. Bevel for 100% penetration

and ping relieve the beads.

Ping relieving; is peining the snot out of the weld with the slightly

rounded point of the slag hammer or needle scaler while it's hot, down

to black heat. This relieves stresses caused by the rapid heating,

cooling and pulling caused by welding. You don't have to hit it hard,

just enough to leave little dimples, like largish, blunt, center punch

marks. Just make it go ping, ping, ping. ;) Also, it doesn't have to be

pinged solid, a mark every 1/4" square inch or so is fine, overlapping

doesn't hurt either and a random pattern is better than a perfect grid.

Don't use the blade end to relieve, as it leaves lines like chisel marks

and these can make starting points for fatigue cracks. The circular

dimples will act like stress stoppers, distributing it evenly around

their circumference.

All the basics apply. (in spades) Clean, Clean, CLEAN, no oil, paint,

dirt, etc, remove the coating from new steel well back from the

weldments. Bevel for 100% penetration, leave about 1/16" wall thickness

on bevels.

Weld at room temperature or preheat. Preheating the 2" will help getting

even penetration and you can let the heat run into the tubing. Don't

over do it, less than spit sizzling hot is plenty.

Bead width should be about 3-4X rod dia, (3/8-1/2" for 1/8" rod) and

should be convex about 1X rod dia, (1/8" high for 1/8" rod) NOT concave.

Massive beads or multiple passes won't add anything but stress and heat

fatigue, you're welds only have to be stronger than 1/4" steel, so don't

get carried away.

When you're running the beads, concentrate on watching the arc and

puddle, rather the bead, a smooth bead, while desirable, is secondary.

You want even penetration on both pieces and since your plate is so much

heavier you will want to concentrate the heat there and let it run into

the tubing. You will find yourself running the rod almost parallel to

the lighter material, well close, 15-20 degrees or so. Practice with

some scrap, 1/4" to 2". When you're comfortable, do the compressive

welds first, then do the shear welds and by time you get to any tensile

welds you'll be fine. Lastly, try to stay away from out of position

welds.

The general tendency with 7018 is to over-amp it for penetration, ease

of welding and pretty beads. For general or light work this is ok,

however for what you're doing you want to do it right. You may want to

practice running it at this amperage as it takes a bit more skill and

might not turn out as pretty. That's okay, pretty isn't important, you

want a GOOD. Over-amping tends to degrade the analysis of the rod and

add needless heat stress and fatigue.

1018-1024 mild steel is 45,000-50,000 psi (tensile) steel, 7018 is

70,000 psi welding rod, so there's plenty of strength. Provided you

don't use old, damp rod, over-amp it or weld dirty.

Most of all, have confidence in your welds, 7018 is excellent rod and if

you follow even most of the guidelines I've laid out, the LAST thing to

fail, will be the welds. Relax, this stuff is actually FUN. ;)

Hope this helps,

Frosty

****************

Kenneth Gastineau wrote:

> I am preparing to build a press frame for a 60 ton hydraulic press. I will

> be welding 3" x 1/4" square tube to 2" plate steel.

> I am planning to use 7018 welding rod. Would this be strong enough?

> What would be the best electrode to use for superior strength.?

> What setting? AC or DC and what amperage?

> The welder I have is a Miller AC/DC "stick" welder.

> Thanks

What frosty said, but I wouldn't weave more than 2.5 times the rod

diameter, just to be safe and might bump it up to about 115 amps, DCRP

(DC, electrode positive) and keep that arc gap short!

***************

John Mickelson wrote:

> >I am looking for the best AC DC welder. in the under five hundred range,

> Who knows the best reliable buzz box. I am inclined to the Lincoln and  spend a

> little extra on a good helmet snd fifty feet of leads,

..I did some research on this a few months back, John, with the intent of

buying a AC-DC welder to replace my Miller AC buzz-box that I have used

and sometimes abused for the past 18 years without mishap. Lincoln,

Miller, Hobart, they're all good and it is difficult to compare them. I

test-drove a friend's Lincoln, I liked it better than my AC welder, but

decided that I would buy the Miller for the following reasons:

The Lincoln has a multi-position switch to adjust the ampereage to any

one of 10 settings, the Miller is infinitely adjustable...

The Lincoln has a limit of 125 amps in DC mode, the Miller, 150..The

Lincoln did not run 5/32" 7018 rod well, the Miller should..

W.W Grainger, with outlets in every major city, including, presumeably,

Seattle, Tacoma, etc. lists the Miller AC-DC for $376, the AC-only for

$248 which is about as cheap as you'll find them. They can probably put

it on your truck straight out of the store. They also sell the Century

Welder under their proprietary brand (Dayton) for quite a bit less this

is the same unit that Sears sells..I cannot recommend it, and suggest you

stick with Miller or Lincoln.

Oh...If you are going to invest in longer cables, get them in a heavier

gauge than is supplied with the welder to cut down on the "line loss"

then attach the electrode holder to10-15 feet of the cable supplied with

the welder and splice this to the heavy cable...this light-weight "whip"

will not create any noticeable line loss and is *much* less fatiguing...a

heavy cable can wear you out...I have 65' of lead to the electrode

holder, it's 2/0 for 50' then the #2 (I think) that came with the

welder..

...Hope this helps..

Jack

Return to Index


TREADLE HAMMERS CONTINUED: (See Also Vol. #2)

> I have been trying to gather info. about the comparisons between home

> built treadle and air power hammers. I have bought two sets of treadle

> hammer plans from ABANA and now I see that they are offering air hammer

> plans. I am contemplating building one or the other, or even the type of

> treadle hammer shown in the last issue of Anvils Ring. However, before I

> do anything, I want more info. ie. best application of each, best

> design, ease of construction, cost, etc.. I would appreciate any advice

> which could be provided.

>

> Thanks in advance,

> George

I would advise getting Clay Spencer's ([email protected]) treadle hammer

plans. They're great.

Steven O. Smith

[email protected]

****************

At 6:55 AM 10/23/96, David C. Hufford wrote:

>Larry, Bob, and others:

>I bought one of Richard Sheppard's slide treadle hammers about a year

>ago (#6). Not having any experience with the swing-arm-type treadle

>hammers, I have no good basis of comparison, but I've been very pleased

>with the Sheppard hammer. I believe Bob's observation that it lacks the

>SNAP of the swing-arm hammer is valid; also you are more limited in the

>size of stock/tooling you can employ due to the fixed clearance between

>the ram and the anvil. The perpendicular movement of the ram, however,

>is great and the overall performance of the hammer is good. It's a

>compact design and doesn't take much shop space. The later models have

>a large bolt which serves as a "set screw" for bottom tools, which my

>model doesn't have - and is a desirable feature. If there's any

>additional info I can provide, let me know.

>

>D.C. Hufford

To provide information for comparison of the design of Richard's hammer and

my design, I will provide my observations from inspecting and using

Richard's for a few licks. This was on the first hammers that Richard had

at QSRU over a year ago. I don't know if there have been any recent

changes.

Richard's workmanship is excellent and the straight line operation is

wonderful. It solves a lot of problems of my design by keeping things

always lined up.

Differences:

Big Lick:

Straight line head movement, short hammer head movement, hollow anvil,

direct connection (without spring) of hammer head to treadle, no adjustment

between hammer head and treadle. Tool holding wedge must be short enough to

go through hammer head guides. Limited tool/working height under the

hammer.

Spencer Design:

Arc hammer head movement with provisions to align tools at impact, long

hammer head movement, solid anvil, turnbuckle adjustment between hammer

head and treadle, spring connection between hammer head and treadle,

vertical adjustment of hammer head/slider to 12" above lowest position,

adjustable clamp to change relative motion between hammer head and treadle.

My observations:

For heavy forging operations, a solid anvil weighing at least four times

the anvil weight is more efficient.(I wouldn't use a 10 lb. sledge on a 40

lb. anvil for regular blacksmithing work.)

Having the hammer head move for 18" or so will allow much more powerful

blows. (Force = mass times velocity squared.)

You cannot achieve maximum force unless your leg is nearly straight when

hammer hits work, an adjustment between hammer head and treadle allows the

treadle to be near the floor when hammer hits work. The turnbuckle

adjustment is provided so leg is extended when hammer hits (similar to

height adjustment on bicycle seat). This allows full leg power to be

applied to treadle.

With no spring connection between treadle and hammer head, the impact is

transmitted more through the treadle to your foot.

My design requires that the height of head/slider assembly be changed to

have tools mounted in the anvil and hammer align properly. This adjustment

normally only needs to made when new tools are mounted or the stock being

worked is thicker. Can accomodate at least 10" combined tool and material

height and still get full power blow.

The relative movement between hammer head and treadle is much different due

to the different lengths of the lever arms.

My design is much more complicated to build with vertically adjustable

head/slider assembly, spring and turnbuckle adjustment. Solid anvil

material may be hard to find, but slabs of 1" or 2" material may be easily

welded together to get weight needed.

More comments and thoughts:

The best of all worlds would be a straight line, vertically guided hammer

head, with about 18" of movement, turnbuckle adjustment, spring connection,

solid anvil, etc.

Fred Caylor, the small power hammer man, called last week and was very

excited about his treadle hammer with air cylinder power. He says it worked

great. Fred already had the TH so it was easy to start from there for him.

His legs are so bad he couldn't use the TH.

If you are going to make a powered TH, it seems to me it would be easier to

just build Ron Kinyon's ABANA design Simple Air Hammer. I read where Ron

said at the ABANA Conference you could get a single blow easily on it.

Clay

***************

I have built both, Clay's hammer and the ABANA air hammer.

I have less than $100.00 in Clay's Treadle Hammer,all I bought was

springs, bolts,and lead everything else was leftovers from jobs

in my shop. So if you scrounge around you can build one cheap.

The air hammer cost a little more about $555.00 cylinder, hoses,

valves, brass and so-on. Some parts Like frame and base plate

I had but I had to buy the hammer & anvil. A junk yard near here

has loads of 4" & 5" solid round .20#.

Oh yea, they both work great!

Forge On!

Travis

**************

G&B Taylor wrote:

> I have been trying to gather info. about the comparisons between home

> built treadle and air power hammers. I have bought two sets of treadle

> hammer plans from ABANA and now I see that they are offering air hammer

> plans. I am contemplating building one or the other, or even the type of

> treadle hammer shown in the last issue of Anvils Ring. However, before I

> do anything, I want more info. ie. best application of each, best

> design, ease of construction, cost, etc.. I would appreciate any advice

> which could be provided.

> Thanks in advance,

> George

George-

I have built a Kinyon hammer and helped a friend build another. And I'm

gathering materials to build 2 more. IMHO It is a very good set of plans

and a great design. The treadle hammer has it's own application, which

is different from the air hammer. The difference being that one gives a

controled single blow and the other gives controled repetitive blows(up

to 220 bpm). This limits what each can do. The type of work you do will

dictate which would be the best for you.

The treadle hammer would be easier to build, but the air hammer isn't

called the "simple air hammer" for nothing.

Good Luck and Happy Hammering-

Bill Roberts

[email protected]

***************

> Are the treadle hammer plans available from ABANA the Clay Spencer design?

> Thanks .

> Bob Schade

Nope. Clay can be reached email:

***************

At 4:15 PM 1/7/97, Ron Reil wrote:

>I saw comments about your hammer design on the ArtMetal group. I need a

>power hammer but do not want an air powered one. I am not familiar with

>yours. Could you please give me a little info on its design, and the cost

>of your plans. I am leaning toward a trip hammer, but have much to learn

>yet about power hammers. Anything you could pass on to me would be greatly

>appreciated.

My design has a 65 lb. hammer which has provisions to hold tools mounted in

the hammer head and anvil. The head moves on an arc with provisions to

align tools at impact. The anvil is solid weighing 250 lb. There is a

turnbuckle adjustment between hammer head and treadle and spring connection

between hammer head and treadle, vertical adjustment of hammer head/slider

to 12" above lowest position, adjustable clamp to change relative motion

between hammer head and treadle.

For heavy forging operations, a solid anvil weighing at least four times

the anvil weight is more efficient.(I wouldn't use a 10 lb. sledge on a 40

lb. anvil for regular blacksmithing work.)

Having the hammer head move for 18" or so will allow you to hit powerful

blows. (Force = mass times velocity squared.)

You cannot achieve maximum force unless your leg is nearly straight when

hammer hits work, an adjustment between hammer head and treadle allows the

treadle to be near the floor when hammer hits work. The turnbuckle

adjustment is provided so leg is extended when hammer hits (similar to

height adjustment on bicycle seat). This allows full leg power to be

applied to treadle.

With no spring connection between treadle and hammer head, the impact is

transmitted more through the treadle to your foot.

My design requires that the height of head/slider assembly be changed to

have tools mounted in the anvil and hammer align properly. This adjustment

normally only needs to made when new tools are mounted or the stock being

worked is thicker.

It can accomodate at least 10" combined tool and material height and still

get full power blow.

My design is much more complicated to build (compared to the original ABANA

design) since it has vertically adjustable head/slider assembly, spring and

turnbuckle adjustment. Solid anvil material may be hard to find, but slabs

of 1" or 2" material may be easily welded together to get weight needed.

You have to do all the work by stepping on the treadle to make the hammer

hit. You have very good control of the blows, light or heavy, slow or fast.

You can do some serious, heavy forging but it takes a lot of energy to do

it.

A lot of this does not make sense to you until you see the plans or a hammer.

If you are going to make a powered TH, it seems to me it would be easier to

just build Ron Kinyon's ABANA design Simple Air Hammer.

My plans are 16 pages (8 1/2" x 11") including parts list, detail parts

drawings and assembly instructions. They are $7.50 postpaid. Send me your

address and I will mail a copy ­ if you like them send me the $7.50, if you

don't want them, send them back. 704-837-0708

ABANA sells plans which are Hans Peot's version of my treadle hammer design

for $9 non-member/$7 member. These are mainly photographs of how Hans built

my design. You will end up with a hammer of my design.

*****************

At 10:15 PM 1/7/97, Ron Reil wrote:

>Clay, your hammer sounds very interesting. I may look farther at others

>too, but for only $7.50, I can not turn down your plans either. I don't

>like having you send me something I haven't paid you for, so if you will

>e-mail me your snail mail address I will send you a check for the amount so

>you can send them to me. Just for your record, my address follows. I would

>prefer if you wait to send me the plans until you get my money first

>though. I do not like to take anything from a man that I have not paid him

>for first. I guess I really am from the "Golden Age". Grin.

>Ron Reil

Ron

My address is Route 2, Box 509-C, Murphy, NC 28906-9260. $7.50 includes

first class snail mail cost.

Clay

Return to Index


FORGE WELDING FLUX CONTINUED: (See Also Vol. 1&2)

Christian Laferriere wrote:

> >George Montee wrote:

> >> I know people out there have the answer I'm looking for. I've been doing

> >> blacksmith welds with 20 mule team Borax. It's okay I guess. A local

> >> welding place has "Anti-Borax Flux". Is that any better or easier to use?

> >> It sounds like it would do exactly opposite of what you would want it to do.

> >> Thanks in advance,

> >> George

> > I've used Antiborax brazing flux for forge welding with great success

> >but sometimes it leaves a hard black deposit on the iron that's tough to get off.

> On the knife-list one of the bladesmiths advised that he used anhydrous

> borax (not the 20 mule team stuff as I believe it has added detergents) and

> he adds some Calcium Fluoride or Florspar to the mixture. Apparently Calcium

> Fluoride is very corrosive at high temps and is used to clean out foundry

> crucibles or something to that effect.

> Anyone here ever used the stuff.

> I have some on order and will be trying it out soon.

> Thanks

> I went to a lot of bother to get it from a local chemical supply house.

Redic price for what I got. Later found out that it is used regularly in

pottery making and can be had from a pottery makers supply house.

Coon

***************

>Hello to all you southern smiths

>I am the blacksmith at Fort Edmonton Park (in the summer, I teach tech ed.

>in the winter).

>Part of my job(hobby, other life) is to rebuild and maintain the moving

>parts (iron) of buggies, wagons, hinges,latches, etc., and do some forge

>welding. Our park covers the fur trade era 1846 to the 1920s (tomahawk

>heads to wagon tires).

>

>Does anyone have a good welding compound recipe that works? Some of our old

>smiths have real witches brew stuff that works for them but no one else.

>Doug

Doug,

Try 4 parts borax/1 part boric acid powder or crystal. I use it for

welding damascus as well as general welding and have been using it since

Anti-Borax company sold out.

Bill

Return to Index


BOOKS CONTINUED: (See Also Vol. 1&2)

In addition to Bonny Doon Engineering, my book on Hydraulic Die Forming

is available from tool suppliers Frei and Borel (in Oakland and San

Francisco) and TSI in Seattle, at the bookstores of GIA in Santa Monica,

California, Arrowmont School of Arts and Crafts in Gatlinburg, Tenessee

and Metalifferous in New York City.It is available through the SNAG

bookservice, and in Canada, through Susan Wakefield, RR #1, Zephyr,

Ontario, LOE 1TO 117. And finally, on behalf of 20-Ton Press (which is

me), I would be glad to mail you a copy. The book (including shipping

and handling) is $24.45 (Add $1.45 for the Governor if you live in

California). My address is 20-Ton Press, P.O. Box 222492, Carmel, CA

93922. If anyone is interested in discounts for ordering in quantities,

E-mail me for details. I am looking for distributors in the UK, Germany

and Australia.

Thanks,

Susan

***************

Norm Larson, <[email protected]> said,

>On PBS a few years ago there was an excellent 6 or 7 hour series called

>"Out of the Firey Furnace." I could use some help in finding out where this series of

>videos could be purchased.

Norm,

UC Berkeley also shows the TAPE on their site at,

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/Videoseries.html

Out of the Fiery Furnace. (PBS, 1985).

Exploration of the ways in which civilization has been shaped by man's use

of mineral resources. Video/C 927-933.

mailto:[email protected]

Although not the TAPE, the book may lead you to how to purchase the tape. I

noticed the BOOK " Out of the Fiery Furnace" at the "Old Tools" site at

http://www.mwtca.org/booklist.htm . mailto:[email protected]

The BOOK is also at the http://amazon.com site. Out of the Fiery Furnace :

The Impact of Metals on the History of Mankind

by Robert Raymond

Paperback

List: $26.25 -- Amazon.com Price: $26.25

Published by Pennsylvania State Univ Pr (Txt)

Publication date: 1, 1991

ISBN: 027100441X

David

Graphic Design/Illustration; http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/

Environmental Links; http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/environ.html

Forge Plans; http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/forge/fgpl.html

mailto:[email protected]

***************

At 10:35 AM 1/5/97, Maclean Francis wrote:

>1. I am in need of a book (s) on designs of wrought iron furnitures, gates,

>rails, fencing, burgular proofings (bars) for homes etc.

Mac,

I have published several books on wrought iron, from how-to-do-it to the

historical. They are listed below.

Julius Schramm $ 6.00

The Artist-Blacksmith's Craft $29.00

New Edge of the Anvil $25.00

Samuel Yellin, Metalworker $40.00

For a complete description of the books and a chapter from each book go to:

http://www.bookmasters.com/skipjack

To order the call 1-800-247-6553 or order from the web page.

Jack Andrews

6 Laport Court

1408-B Ocean Pines

Berlin, MD 21811 410-208-9098

Return to Index


BLACKSMITH PROFILES:

Hello All,

I bet you thought I forgot about the ABANA artist profiles... Well I

didnt, at least I dont think I did, I dont remember now. <GRIN> Anyway Im

ready to get started on it now. As of now the page will be located at

http://www.the-matrix.com/profiles.html (gimme about a week to get the

profiles up).

Listed below is the format to submit profiles. As soon as I can get some

more server information from the administrator, I'll switch over to a forms

based submission on the page itself. Sorry it took so long but Ive been busy

learning sgi scripts and building my treadle hammer (gotta have priorities).

Email ME (not the whole group) with the below information if you would like

to be inculded in the profiles page.

later

mike

ABANA Artist Blacksmith Profile Index

Name:

Business Name:

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip Code:

Country:

Phone Number:

Email Address:

Personal Web Page URL:

Description of Work:

Personal Biography:

Michael Linn

http://www.the-matrix.com/afc/index.html

Return to Index


MISC. SUPPLY SOURCES AND INFO:

Sure;

Here ya go. Casting specialties Corp PO. box 32 Cedarburg, Wisconsin

53012

414-375-2430.

They send out a little 8 page catalog. They cater mostly to high school

industrial arts classes I think.

Works for me;

Buddy

Ron Reil wrote:

> If anyone still has the address for these unfinished castings I would

> really appreciate a repost. Thanks very much. :-)

> Ron Reil

*****************

Please include us in your list of suppliers. We have the best

blacksmithing tools available from all over the world at good prices.

We accept visa and mastercard and ship all over the US. We will be happy

to mail or fax you our tool sheets with prices upon request. STEVE

KAYNE 100 Daniel Ridge Road, Candler, NC 28715 (704) 667-8868, fax #704

665-8303.

****************

willie calhoun wrote:

> At 09:06 AM 12/10/96 -0500, you wrote:

> >On Dec 9, 3:12pm, Jim McCarty wrote:

> >> Subject: Carolina Glove

> >> Anyone have the address and phone number for Carolina Glove?

> >> Jim McCarty

> >Try

> >Carolina Glove Company

> >P.O.Box 820

> > Newton, NC 28658

> >800-438-6888

> >I understand they will sell you pairs of gloves or singles only. I guess they

> >have a lot of lefts left.

> >Mark

> >'scuse my ingnornace, but, what is a Carolina Glove and what makes it so

> special?

>

> Willie Calhoun

Once you discover the secret you will throw away most of your tongs.

Carolina Glove makes Kevlar gloves that let you hold real hot things

without bringing you fingers up to welding heat. Actually, the heat

will get to you eventually but they really make a difference. The

drawback is they spoil you and then you get a little hole in the glove

and naturally the hot iron finds the hole and ouch! They also make you

careless.

We like to buy a pair and swap gloves with the many lefties in our

chapter as you only need the glove on your tong hand.

Jim McCarty

**************

I have long been a user of Kevlar gloves. Especially, the ones with the

little blue rubber dots on them that give you an added grip on hammer and

tongs. One of the things I like about them is that they are fully

interchangeable. That is to say, it doesn't make any difference whether you

put them on your right or left hand. If you get a hole in the thumb just move

it to the other hand. They are also an easy clean. Just wash your hands

with the gloves on.

Their heat resistance has also saved me a lot of burns. Being naturally

stupid and forgetful I am prone to picking up the wrong end of hot things.

They also fit rather nicely. Usually, everything I get is too big for me.

The Kevlar mediums are just right.

I can probably get 20 times the wear of cotton and ten times the wear of

leather from them. Sometimes I buy a few dozen and sell them at the

get-togethers for $8/pr.

I get mine from Golden Needles Knitting and Glove Co, Inc. Wilkesboro, NC

919-667-5102. $65 per dozen

Kindest Regards,

Don PLummer

**************

> i just called carolina glove co. to order my first pair of left handed

> kevlar gloves. the woman i spoke with asked me for a part number which i

> did not have, so i told her i wanted to order some kevlar gloves, she

> explained that there are many many kinds of kevlar gloves to choose from

> and i would need to know which ones, its kind of like you can't just go

> into a restaurant and tell the waitperson you would like to order dinner,

> the need more information. so my question is for those who have ordered or

> used these gloves before; which ones work best for blacksmithing? can you

> post a part number?

> thanks >>

> Roger ,

> Could you post the Ph# for Carolina Glove?

> Guess I missed it

> Thanks,

> Travis

I received a Carolina Glove catalog over the weekend. The style I use,

KVA65285, is 100% Kevlar Jersey outer layer, Hot Mill, Band top. Another

variety, KV32611, is 100% Kevlar Seamless Machine Knit Reversable with plastic

dots. The company has 18 kinds of Kevlar glove. Their # is: 800-438-6888

I suppose you might ask for an opinion from the company or order several

different kinds and decide what's best for yourself.

Mark

*****************

<Where can I get these materials? Also, how hot should the surface be for the

application of this wax mixture? Should I just use a heat gun, or will I need

higher temps?>

Kindt-Collins Co.

12651 Elmwood Ave

Cleveland, OH 44111

1-800-321-3170

Ask for the wax catalog. They have a complete line of waxes and wax

forms for jewelers at good prices. K-C also has many foundry and

patternmaking supplies, in another catalog.

Temprature should go above 212 F to drive off all surface water. You'll

see this happen. Apply wax. Let it cool completely and buff with soft

cloth. If you have an excess, heat locally with a heat gun and wipe it

off. I do a lot of hot patinas and I never let them cool, many times

the bronze is well over 212.

MP

Return to Index


METAL FINISHES CONTINUED: (See Also Vol. 1&2)

Heath wrote:

<I know a few of you do copper fountains, and I may be doing a huge (12' x 9')

indoor water-fall wall of hammered copper in the near future, and I was

wondering about a few things.>

Congratulatios Heath, sounds like a big one!!

<#1 What's the best coating for keeping the finish on the copper. Some areas

will be polished raw copper, and others will have patina. Is Agate lacquer

the best for this, or something else? Also, after polishing, do I need to do

anything else to the copper before clear-coating? Some areas will be

constantly in contact with the recirculating water, and others will be

exposed only to mist and/or humidity.>

There are a couple of schools of thought on this question and it kind of

depends on how much maintenance time can/will be put into the fountain.

First off, I would not use a lacquer. The problem with a lacquer is pinholes

in the coating or other areas where bad adhesion might occur, like where you

touched it with bare hands. Water gets in behind the coating, starts to bloom

and react with the copper and then you are screwed. Stripping has to be done

with methelene chloride. Very nasty. This can happen fairly quickly, esp. in

a fountain.

If you want to coat it, use wax, applied immediately after patina to a hot

surface. Never touch the surface with your hands. The surface should be

pristine clean before patination. The only problem with wax is that it will

need to be reapplied or at least touched up every 6 to 12 months. It could

easily be done by house maintenance if you leave detailed instructions or

train someone. The good thing about wax; it's easy to strip and replace.

A good wax formulation is: (my "secret" recipe)

1/3 beeswax, real or synthetic

1/3 bayberry wax

1/3 caranuba

smidgen of microcrystaline wax or crayons for color match.

melt SLOWLY together,apply with soft brush or rag to hot surface. allow to

cool and buff out.

This is an extremly durable finish if applied correctly and maintained.

The third option is no coating and let nature take her course, which she will

eventually anyhow.

#2 Resources for good, dependable water pumps for a recirculating system.

This thing will be running probably 16 hrs. a day year-round.

Grainger or other local supply house. Ease of getting parts is your main

consideration here, after sizing it properly of course. A word of advice, put

a filtration system in. If possible put a water conditioning system in

that includes a UV sterilizer. Call Culligan. You won't believe the gunk

that will build up over time. There is more to the pumping suystem than just

the pump and pipes, esp. for a public work.

#3 Recommendations for a good copper patination book or a healthy amount of

advice on this. Mostly I'm looking for good blues and greens.

Get a commercial patina solution from Ron Young at Sculpt Nouveau.

[email protected] or 800-728-5787. There are a few other companies, too.

One is Jax. Check Thomas register. If you want to mix up your own, I'll give

you some formulas as the time gets nearer. Ron has a book. It's pretty good.

Do yourself a favor and buy to premixed solution and follow directions.

Mark Parmenter

Return to Index


POWER HAMMERS CONTINUED:(See Also Vol. 1&2)

Joe: There is a hydraulic firm someplace in the upper midwest - of course

the catalogue is at the shop but I'll try and dig it out for you.

If you can ever find a Beaudry mechanical hammer - these are the BEST.

They can strike a very accurate single blow, take very little floorspace,

quite powerful with lots of variety in what kind of stroke/power you want.

I wouldn't part with mine.... 125#'s, a No. 5.

For year's I had lust in my heart for a Chambersberg or Nazel or some such

big, powerful, (lots of floor space needed), gobbled air like a jet engine

- I didn';t care, I wanted one, sooooo badly. Well, gradually I grew up

and out of my need. Now I'm just in love with "Beau." And btw, I know

where you can get a 300#..!!????**

Nol ([email protected])

****************

[email protected] wrote:

> I just completed my Kinyon "Plans" Air Hammer about a month ago.

> It is great and does all the things it has been reported to do.

> I followed the plans faithfully. With the machine work which I paid to have

> done and some of the heavy welding. That is the small piece of beam to the

> large upright, the anvil piece to the base and the large upright to the base.

> The air valves etc. the whole afair cost me about $800. The hammer head

> weighed in between 65-70#.

> I can highly recommend the plans and the hammer, as presented. Which I

> believe is the way to go unless you have a lot more expertise than I.

> Gil Watkins

> [email protected]

Gil-

You got any pictures of it yet? I'd love to see it.

Happy Hammering

Bill

****************

From: ridgart <[email protected]>

>HI I have a Mayer 50# hammer and I can't keep the top die tight, I

>am useing a shop made wedge. does any one know what kind or where I

>can get a wedge?

>GBH..

When I had the old Mayer 25# hammer, the die wedges were kept in place by

inserting two pieces of oiled leather between the die and the wedge. You

might try that. One other thing that I consistently do when a grip is

required between steel and steel is to insert a piece of annealed copper

between the pieces to prevent slippage (between a clamping bolt and the held

piece, for instance).

Chris Ray

*****************

john emmerling wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the plans for Kinyon's air

> hammer and/or modifications? Any experience using one?

> John Emmerling

The plans are available through ABANA, 314-390-2133 should get you

there. Request plans for the "Simple Air Hammer". This is a clearly

written booklet with excellent drawings and photos. I believe the cost

was in the 10 to 25 dollar range.

Dick Kolpace

**************

I have built a Kinyon air hammer following the instructions in the plans

available form ABANA. I followed the plans to the letter, as i had the steel

available locally from a used steel dealer.

I am using a 5hp compessor with a twenty gallon tank. The hammer is all it

was cracked up to be and does all a 65# mechanical hammer will do.

The only suggestion I would have is to either box in the beams or use

something more solid. The hammer really rings during operation. Not really

an insurmountable problem, but one that would have been easier to have

alleviated during construction.

I am very high on this hammer and so are the few Little Giant folks after

they have used it.

Ron Kinyon did us all a great service when he made the plans available

through ABANA

Gil Watkins

[email protected]

***************

>The rated push force for a 2" cyl @ 100psi is 314 lbs. For a 2.5" cyl it is

>491 lbs (just looked it up). What happens here? Is the working action just

>the weight of the ram? It seems like it would be the ram weight as "thrown" by

>the the push force of the cyl.

>I *do* hate the sound of my air compressor...

>Joe

Kinyon first described his simple air hammer in the Fall 1992 (Volume 20

Number 2) Anvils Ring. In the Summer 1994 (Volume 22 Number 1) issue

Theodore Coffey wrote an article called Air Hammer Design Calculations.

It's a three page article with formulas for calculating the force of a

hammer and the air supply requirements. There are several good drawings of

the air system and a couple of graphs.

No doubt you could build a hammer using Kinyons plans (as many here have

done) but if you want to tune the plans for your own design this article

would be helpful.

Bob Schade

**************

Buddy Holmes wrote:

> I must have missed the thread on this. Where can I get these plans?

> Thanks;

> Buddy

Buddy -

You probably know by now but the plans are available thru ABANA.

Called the Simple Air Hammer Plans by Ron Kinyon. Members $12.00

Non $15.00 I think. 314-390-2133 Highly reccomend

Bill Roberts

Custom Design Metal Arts

3740 NE 40th Pl. Ste. C

Ocala, FL. 34479

[email protected]

http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/edu/arts/metal/incoming/portflio/broberts

http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/edu/arts/metal/BramBush.html

Return to Index


GAS FORGES CONTINUED: (See Also Vol. 1&2)

On Sep 30, 11:48am, David Wilson wrote:

> Subject: Re: gas vs. coal

> Thanks to everyone (Chris Ray, Mark Williams etc.) for the wonderful info

> on gas forges. I may soon go that route. Being a "new" welder, my question

> is, where do you suggest that I get plans to build a gas forge? Join ABANA

> as someone suggested? Being a book learning type, a suggestion on books

> about gas forges would be great. ANY help would be appreciated.

> David

> Graphic Design/Illustration; http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/

> Environmental Links; http://www.flash.net/~dwwilson/environ.html

> mailto:[email protected]

ABANA is located in the Central time zone. Norm Larson and Centaur Forge have a

book on building a gas forge. ABANA has plans for a gas forge.

The addresses are:

Artist Blacksmith Association of North America (ABANA)

P.O. Box 206

Washington, MO 63090

314-390-2133

Centaur Forge Ltd.

117 N. Spring Street

P.O.Box 340

Burlington, WI 53105

414-763-9175

Norman A. Larson

5426 Hwy. 246

Lompoc, CA 93436

805-735-2095

800-743-4766 evenings

[email protected]

Good luck!

Mark

***************

On Dec 17, 7:39pm, [email protected] wrote:

> Subject: Regenerative Gas Forge

> Some time back, one of the ABANA monthly newsletters had an article on how to

> bulid a regenerative venturi type propane forge. Does anyone know the date

> and number of this article?

I recall reading about this forge, designed and built by Robb Gunter et al at

Sandia. The updated plans are available through ABANA. Call the office -

314-390-2133, 9 - 5 CST.

I don't know the date of the Anvil's Ring where it was described.

Mark

Return to Index


SWAGES AND FULLERS CONTINUED:(See Also Vol. 2)

At 05:02 PM 11/14/96 -0700, you wrote:

>If anyone still has the address for these unfinished castings I would

>really appreciate a repost. Thanks very much. :-)

> Ron Reil

A While back there was considerable discussion about the availability of

metal raising stakes.

I just got back from the Guild of Metalsmiths fall conference and one of the

bits I picked up was a source for cast but unfinished raising stakes.

All the info I have follows:

Casting Specialties

Dick Schultz

414-375-2430

Sets of unfinished (as cast) raising stakes $300

8 raising 8 mushroom

or avail. seperately

Call for catalog.

Best of luck,

Gene

***************

Here's one of the best fuller tools I've seen. Take a piece of 1/2

inch round and flatten about three inches until it is half the width

of your hardy hole on your anvil. Bend the still round part to 90

degrees. Now take a second piece of the same stock but make this one

twice as long. Flatten the same as before, but make this one a little

less than half the width of the hardy hole. Bend it to 90 degrees. Put

the two together with the round stock one above the other and slip the

flattened ends into the hardy hole. You will have to adjust the

thickness here so it slides up and down easily but doesn't wobble. The

square surfaces held by the hardy hole prevent it from moving side to

side like the spring fullers do. You can make thes in a variety of

sizes with no welding required. For 1/4 inch start with something big

enough to fit the hole and draw out the fuller part. Make sense?

Jim McCarty

******************

Morgan suggested:

> I use a homemade spring fuller. It's a piece of 3/8" or 1/2" rod bent

> like this:

> -

> / \

> | \_________________/

> \__________________________

>                                                     | |

>                                                     |_|

>

> The bottom "u" sets into the hardy hole (diagonal) to hold it still.

> The flat bar sets on the anvil face. Slide the hot metal between the

> free floating bar, whap on the top and it pinches between rods. Cheap

> and quick to make. The rods get munged up fairly fast, so I use them as

> scrap and make another.

I made one of these last night. Now why didn't I get me a fuller before?

It's a pleasure to work with! But you are right about the lifetime. After

fullering down a piece of 1 1/2" x 1/2" SIS 1770 (something like 1080) it

definitely needs a reshaping. Next one I'll make out of something

tougher.

Thanks everybody for your great ideas, I'll make myself one of

the split fullers for the hardy hole too.

(I haven't had so much fun on a Friday night for a looong time. When I

came in I noticed it was 2 AM :)

Ralph

[email protected]

****************

Sorry about your keyboard Ron, they make plastic covers you know.

Anyway, set hammers aren't that hard to make. If you cheat! Check out

the cheapo, discount/closeout tool stores for the Chinese square

hammers. They're basically just rectangular blocks of steel with handles

attached. I bought a few, four-hammer sets for $3.99 per set. The range

is: 500gm, 1,000gm, 1,500gm and 2,000gm. I use one set as flatters, have

ground one set for fullers (not as sets) and intend to forge swages from

the others.

What I plan to do is: First make a jig that holds a section of round

stock for the die and angle iron guides to hold the hammer head, it will

probably be a hardy tool that's wedged under the hardy hole. Second,

I'll remove the handle and plug the hole with steel. Third, heat the

face in the forge with chill blocks on the opposite face that extend

beyond the handle hole. Fourth, drop it in the jig hot side down and

smack the snot out of it with a BIG sledge. Finally, heat treat, grind

poll to shape and polish.

I'll chill the back side of the hammer and plug the handle hole, to

prevent distortion during forging. Hardening and tempering might be

touchy but not cricical as these are hot tools. I'll experiment on one

of the "raw" hammers to avoid wasting the effort of forging in case of a

failure.

The sketch I attached has everything lined up for clarity. I'll have the

face and handle hole aligned at right angles and the wedge will go

across the heal rather than along it.

What I like about these cheapo, $1.00 each, chinese hammers, is they're

square, making the jigs easier to build than for regular single jack

sledges and the like. Also as the handle hole is already there it saves

a huge amount of labor punching and drifting your own, with all the

potential for screwing it up. The quality of the steel is questionable

but as they're hot tools it shouldn't be important. Besides I've been

using them as flatters and fullers for a while and they're holding up

just fine.

Yeah, I kick myself for not getting that monster anvil. I daydream about

the show we could put on at the fair, forging really BIG iron with

several strikers.

Later,

Jerry

Return to Index


RAILROAD IRON:

As I recall, one respondent stated that the clips were made from 1070 steel

and someone else said the HC spikes were 1035 steel.

Both would then be water hardening steel.

I know that the HC spikes do harden enough to make knives from. I have

also made chisels from HC spikes.

****************

> By the way, if anyone recalls what kind of metal the spikes and the "U"

> clips are made of I would appreciate knowing. I didn't save the post with

> that information in it when the thread was going. Thanks. :-)

Spikes are either carbon alloy steel or not ('bout covers it all there,

doesn't it?) Alloy spikes will be designated by letters stamped in the top,

H or HC (I think) The rail clips have a carbon content high enough to

make cutting tools (someone here said 1070 )--- I got a dandy new cutoff

hardy out of one.

Lee

***************

Here's what I saved from the rail hardware discussion.

Steven O. Smith

[email protected]

To All,

W1 is a more highly "refined" grade of plain carbon steel. 1095 will work for

most water hardening applications. Rail is a great general purpose water

hardenable steel. It is essentially 1080. Hardness max's out at about 60 pts

carbon anyway. The 1080 or 1095 is actually more hardenable (usually that the

W1) because it has less carbon in it.

Regards,

Bill Hochella

All,

a clarification regarding what I wrote...

I should have known better than to believe some of the things that

I was told as an apprentice. The tool that Dave was using when his

accident happened (the eye) was made from rail. When we talked about

it at work one of the old timers said that rail was high in manganese,

and I believed him. That is not the case, I stand corrected. I should

have checked the chemistry first, so...

I phoned the local steel mill and asked what is the chemical composition

of rail, and this is what is sold at the moment in Australia:

1. The weight per length of rail varies between 45-60 kgs/meter.

2. It comes in either as rolled or head induction hardened form.

3. The chemical composition by percent is...

Carbon 0.6-0.87

Silicon 0.15-0.5

Manganese 0.7-1.0

Phosphorus and Sulphur 0.04 Max

The rest being Iron.

The chemical analysis indicates that rail is suitable for tooling if

heat treated correctly. Accidents being accidents who knows what the

reason was, it certainly was not the type of steel.

The chemical composition puts it in the upper Medium to lower High

carbon steel range. This would make it suitable for making struck tools,

as Lee wants. Its a Plain Carbon Steel.

If the rail was head induction hardened, then that would explain it

being easier to cut with a saw from the bottom as Frosty wrote, and if

annealed it would be just like butter.

Talking of Hatfield, there is one called Hatfield Special, which is

about 24% Manganese.

Genius in hindsight,

Peter.

To All,

Most regular track type hardware is made from 1080 or similar steel. Rails

are very close to 1080 for sure. Recent main line rail is hardened and may

contain some boron that really raises its hardenability. Unhardened rails

could be cut with a band saw but if you get a hardened one it will take the

teeth off a blade in short order. Anneal before cutting and you will be ok.

Switch gear like frogs and the like are made from a high (12%) manganese

steel that is not hardenable but is very wear resistant because it work

hardens.

Spikes are made in at least two grades, low and high carbon. High carbon

spikes are marked with "HC" on the head. They are hardenable and makes a

reasonable blade. I make then into "letter openers" with fully hardened

blades but with a rounded edge. I quench from a light orange heat in a 10%

brine solution and a fresh file just slides off. I temper at 400*F for an

hour in the oven.

Spikes are ok to use if you pick them up but no pulling.

Hochewa

According to Howard Clark, the railroad spikes marked "HC" are 1045 steel.

Brian Street

Creamery Hill Forge

To All,

Carbon steel goes non-magnetic at 1380*F or so up to about .6% carbon and the

temperature falls with increasing carbon to 1333*F at .8%. If you heat until

it is just non-magnetic even for an .8% carbon steel you may not get complete

transformation. You surely don't at lower carbon contents. I have great

sucess with HC spikes at light orange and brine. 1045 can make a reasonable

edge. In reality, the potential hardness of carbon steel maxes out at about

.6% carbon anyway. Higher carvon contents increase hardenability but not

hardness.

Hochewa

To All,

Railroad spikes are probably not alloyed with anything beyond carbon.

Manganese is always present and a little chrome does not impart corrosion

resistance. Final hardness of an edge depends on complete transformation to

austenite prior to quenching.

Hochewa

George Carpenter wrote:

> Im not encouraging anything here, but if casual jaunt down an old railroad

> track..... I leave the rest to your imagination. BTW--you can easily fit 3

> spikes in a hip pocket.

> George I. Carpenter III

If you find a place where they are putting in new rail you will always

find old spikes free for the taking (Dohn't ask, don't tell). You will

also find full cans of new spikes that they throw off from work trains

to be installed later. They always manage to throw one of these down a

steep bank where it is impossible for the track crews to retrieve it

(these full cans have no handles and probably weight 300 pounds). I

let them lay for 6 months or so and then go retrieve them.

Having said that, I far prefer the low carbon spikes which have an M

on them, I think it stands for Mild Steel?? The new ones are put in

with a machine and must be high carbon or the get squashed instead of

driven in. If you forge a mild one and hten get one with HC stamped on

the head you will see why I like the old low carbon spikes better.

Of course if you are making knives that are going to be used you need

the high carbon ones and a bigger hammer.

My brother uses so many railroad spikes that he contacted a supplier

to find out what they were made of. He talked to someone at J&J Rail

Sales Co. who gave him a contact at Spike INdustries in Youngstown,

Ohio. Here's what they told him:

They come in either high or low carbon steel. The low carbon is A-36

steel or a c1011 to C1017 steel. They range from .11 to .19 carbon.

The high carbon spikes are marked HC on the heqd along with a

manufacturers mark. Spike Industries uses an X for their mark. The

steel in these must have at least .30 carbon. The amount varies

according to the customer's specs. Spike's standard is a C1035 steel

with.35 carbon. It is a water hardening steel.

The standard size is 5/8 inch sq. by 6 inches long. They also make a

9/16 sq. by 5 1/2 inch long.

They offered to ship Pat 100 spikes in trade for a couple of finished

knives but Pat wasn't interested. Too easy to pick them up on the old

Frisco bed near home...

Jim McCarty

Return to Index


PATTERN WELDED STEEL: (See Also Vol. 2)

I received several requests for information about *where* I bought

nickel sheet. I dug around and actually managed to find the name of

the company and the contact information. So here goes:

Lyon Industries

1585 Gilpin Street

South Elgin, IL 60177

1-800-FOR-LYON

fax 1-847-695-5966

These folks sell shim stock. I bought a roll of pure nickle shim

stock from them for about fifty bucks. It is between 6"-8" wide and

a few thousandths of an inch thick. I HAVE NOT been able to do much

expirimentation with this stuff, but for knife makers who want

dramatic patterns, this should do the trick.

Hope this helps out!

Franklyn D. Garland

http://www.mcs.net/~frnklyn/homepage/

***************

> To all,

> My son has completed his first Damascus knife. Quenched in oil and tempered to

> a straw color in our oven.

> He then etched it in Miratic (sp) acid, which turned to whole blade an ugly

> light gray color. You can see the pattern

> but it isn't very attractive How do we get the pattern to stand out more and

> have a more pleasing color.

> Thank You

> Bob Ehrenberger

Hi Bob,

I've never tried muratic acid. I use ferric cloride, also

known as "Archer Etchant", which is used for etching circuit boards.

It is availiable from Radio Shack. Make a solution 2/3 water 1/3

acid. You'll have to experiment with time in etch, it just takes a few

seconds before the layers start showing, but you'll want a deep

etch. No dangerous fumes, no instant skin removal, no great hazard

to work with.

I love this stuff...I use it for etching damascus, etching

logos, etching copper fittings, and to show the granular structure of

the steel. Best thing to use for a etching tank that I've found so far

is a piece of 3" pvc pipe about 18" long, capped on one end, with

a threaded cap on the other end.

I also use it to loosen fire scale before wire-brushing and

grinding. Do not use the same stuff to etch copper then steel, unless

you want the steel copper plated.

Try it, you'll like it!

George

***************

Need some "pure nickel"? Call Knife and Gun Finishing Supplies, they have it

(N200) in thin and thinner for use in pattern welded blades. I got some, works

great.

Joe

K&G:

Knife and Gun Finishing Supplies, 602 537-8877 FAX 602-537-8066.

PO BOX 458FK Lakeside, AZ 85929

***************

Damascus in my opinion is superior in ways to other cutting materials. I use

L6 tool steel and 1075 hi carbon to make my steel.. It cuts great and is

very user friendly as for sharpening and refinishing. Thanks for the kind

words.

Darrel

**************

At 04:29 PM 12/14/96 -0700, Ron wrote:

>As I would expect, your works are fantastic. Damascus is by far the

>"richest" type of metal for such work. I am curious Darrel how good

>Damascus is in holding an edge. Are Damascus blades actually serviceable,

>or are they mainly for appearance. I am thinking about the edge of the

>blade and that it must have a continuously changing hardness along its

>length because of the changing metal properties. What metals do you layer

>together to make your Damascus billets out of? I plan to try my hand at it

>one of these days.

Since I feel that a knife inplies a decent edge, this question has been of

some interest to me in my pursuit of Damascus. The first step is making

sure that the mix has sufficient carbon, e.g.

Steel Percent Carbon* Proportional mass Total Carbon

O1 1.0% 2 2.0

L6 1.0% 2 2.0

W1 1.0% 2 2.0

5160 0.6% 1 0.6

wrought iron 0.0 1 0

8 units 6.6 units

6.6/8.0 => 0.825%

0.6% is the effective lower limit, so this example should work. Some carbon

will be lost in the welding, so technique is critical. I wrap the billet

in the wrought iron to minimize carbon lost.

By the time the billet reaches > 200 layers, the carbon will migrate throughout

all the layers (according to Al Pendray, the guru on heat treating and wootz).

So, assuming that the mix has a final carbon content above 0.6% and that the

blade is correctly heat treated, the edge should be fine. ---unless---

There is pure nickel in the mix. Pure nickel enhances the boldness of the

pattern but stops carbon migration. In a blade with nickel layers, the edge is

going to have soft spots. The solution is to either:

(a) profile the blade and forge welded a piece of tool steel along the edge. I

use 1/4" x 1/4" O1 for this. Makes a nice edge on big bowies. I have also

made tool steel damascus for this purpose (on a bird head bowie - the pommel

is a forged bird head with the beak carefully agape so it can be used as a

bottle opener)

(6) san-mai construction - make a sandwitch of damascus-tool steel-damascus.

Weld

it so that the center core of tool steel is still centered. When the blade

is ground, the edge will be tool steel. I use O1 for this.

Well you DID ask!

Steve

* apprx values - the actual ones are available in the appropriate reference

books - that are not within reach right now.

Dr. Stephen A. Bloom

E-Mail: [email protected]

*****************

I luv dis contry.

Looks good to me Steve.. ..I prefer L6 .7 carbon and 1075 .75 carbon. I use

thin layer welding . This stops carbon loss (only folding once or twice) ,

creates a more parallel billet for pattern welding, (reference DR Jim

Hirosolus) the

says that the excellent damascus has to start with parallel layers. I start

with .06 thy L6 and 1075. The MS point on these two steels is close to the

same. I can HT and have a almost fool proof blade with lots of ductility and

edge holding ability with these two steels. The L6 has 2.25 points of

nickel. It is very nice for finishing. I know how you feel about all of

these different damascus theories. I felt the same way SO I made my own by

taking the best of each. I respect each and every one of the fellows you

list. They all have good Ideas and they all work... I have 20 years

experience with heat treating and steels so this is my Idea of a good

cutting steel.

Darrel

At 08:46 AM 12/16/96 -0500, you wrote:

>At 04:29 PM 12/14/96 -0700, Ron wrote:

>>As I would expect, your works are fantastic. Damascus is by far the

>>"richest" type of metal for such work. I am curious Darrel how good

>>Damascus is in holding an edge. Are Damascus blades actually serviceable,

>>or are they mainly for appearance. I am thinking about the edge of the

>>blade and that it must have a continuously changing hardness along its

>>length because of the changing metal properties. What metals do you layer

>>together to make your Damascus billets out of? I plan to try my hand at it

>>one of these days.

>

>Since I feel that a knife inplies a decent edge, this question has been of

>some interest to me in my pursuit of Damascus. The first step is making

>sure that the mix has sufficient carbon, e.g.

>

> Steel Percent Carbon* Proportional mass Total Carbon

> O1 1.0% 2 2.0

> L6 1.0% 2 2.0

> W1 1.0% 2 2.0

> 5160 0.6% 1 0.6

> wrought iron 0.0 1 0

> 8 units 6.6 units

> 6.6/8.0 => 0.825%

>

>0.6% is the effective lower limit, so this example should work. Some carbon

>will be lost in the welding, so technique is critical. I wrap the billet

>in the wrought iron to minimize carbon lost.

>

>By the time the billet reaches > 200 layers, the carbon will migrate throughout

>all the layers (according to Al Pendray, the guru on heat treating and wootz).

>So, assuming that the mix has a final carbon content above 0.6% and that the

>blade is correctly heat treated, the edge should be fine. ---unless---

>

>There is pure nickel in the mix. Pure nickel enhances the boldness of the

>pattern but stops carbon migration. In a blade with nickel layers, the edge is

>going to have soft spots. The solution is to either:

>

>(a) profile the blade and forge welded a piece of tool steel along the edge. I

> use 1/4" x 1/4" O1 for this. Makes a nice edge on big bowies. I have also

> made tool steel damascus for this purpose (on a bird head bowie - the

pommel

> is a forged bird head with the beak carefully agape so it can be used as a

> bottle opener)

>

>(6) san-mai construction - make a sandwitch of damascus-tool steel-damascus.

>Weld

> it so that the center core of tool steel is still centered. When the blade

> is ground, the edge will be tool steel. I use O1 for this.

>Well you DID ask!

>Steve

>* apprx values - the actual ones are available in the appropriate reference

> books - that are not within reach right now.

>Dr. Stephen A. Bloom

Return to Index


BENDING TUBE CONTINUED:(See Also Vol. 2)

> Ok so that's the explanation. Now for the questions. What sort of

> tubing should I be using for this? The 1/2" black pipe that they have at

> the hardware store seems to have a pretty thick wall and is darn hard to

> bend. What type/diameter/wall thickness pipe would be best? Where can I

> get it? Is there any heat treatment needed? Should I fill the tubing

> with sand before bending? (or some other material) Will pulleys be

> strong enough to be used to make a couple of bends in the tubing, can you

> suggest some other improvised die? (Short of tool steel)

Hmmm...

Lemme see if I can help with a few of these questions.

I do a lot of cold bending of steel around plywood forms. The steel, when

bent cold, tends to "spring" back some, so the plywood "dies" have to be made

to a tighter radius than you actually need. The advantage of using the wood

dies is that they are easy to cut out, and this saves a bunch of time when

you are making a jig that you'll only be using for a small number of bends. I

use mostly 3/4" ply, sometimes staked for thicker steel, to make these dies.

I've used some of these jigs 50-100 times without wearing out the jig.

I do most of my bending on a large, flat, wood table. I screw the ply wood

die to the table, then screw down another chunk of wood near the die, about

the same distance from the die as the thickness of the metal. I then wedge

the piece of metal I am working in between the die and that extra chunk of

ply at the point I want to start the bend. Now you can just use the metal

itself as your lever. If the piece of metal is too short, you can use bending

forks or, in your case, a length of another pipe that slides over (or into)

the pipe you are bending, to add more leverage.

Depending on the pipe you use and how tight the radius is, you may or may not

need to pack the pipe with sand. Another trick I've heard is to freeze water

inside the pipe. If you are using black pipe, you'll be amazed at how tight a

radius you can bend without the need for "packing."

Using these methods, buy an extra length of pipe for your test bends. Also,

if there is a steel supply anywhere near where you live, buy it there, 'cause

you'll pay two to three times the price at large Lowe's-type stores, and even

more at your neighborhood hardware store.

I hope this helps some. If you need clarifications on anything I've said,

feel free to ask.

Heath

Return to Index


FOUNDRY:

This summer at the Second Annual Iron Pour in Herman, Minnesota,

I observed a mold made with Styrofoam and poured with cast iron.

I have some questions.

Here is a description of the technique.

Styrofoam in dry sand mold technique:

1) Make Styrofoam (bead board or higher density) pattern as

accurately as possible, with final surface texture as desired.

2) No vents are necessary

(but put them in anyway to relieve any bubbling back of

out gassing Styrofoam).

3) Dip in Styrofoam wash or mold wash (thinned clay).

4) Let dry.

5) Pack in dry fine sand (sandblasting sand) in a metal container (buckets)

6) Vibrate the mold occasionally to pack while adding the sand around

the pattern, (rock on a rod centered under the container)

7) Styrofoam sprue should go up through enlarged hole in the bottom of a

clay plant pot used as a pouring cup.

8) Pour with hot molten Iron (or non-ferrous metals).

The objects that were poured turned out very nicely. It seems to be a simpler

technique than packing Styrofoam in green sand, or using the ceramic shell

technique. If you can make what you want directly out of Styrofoam.

My questions are:

** What is the mold wash or clay referred to in step 3) ?

** Is there a commercial product available?

or a simple home brew (like clay slip)?

This technique is borrowed from the automotive industry

...it is used to cast manifolds. There are probably

molds to make the Styrofoam patterns.

** Is there information about casting Styrofoam?

** Are there any sources for more information about the technique?

(it may be proprietary, it may be published,

but the technique itself was simple enough

to reproduce easily)

Thanks in advance for any information on this technique.

e-mail [email protected]

****************

>John & Cynthia/ MidLife Crisis Ent. wrote:

>> I used a forced air (squirrel cage with an air control flap over the air

>> inlet) into a 2" black pipe burner (about 3" long) with a 1/2" closed off

>> pipe with a 3/32" hole for a gas nozzel stuck into the side of the pipe.

>> Currently the fan blows directly into the end of the pipe, but the next

>> time I have to rebuild the burner, I will have the fan going into the side

>> of the pipe or use a 90 deg elbow on the inlet side (this to get better

>> mixing). The venturi would probably work for the shell kiln, but I really

>> do not think it would be very good for the melting furnace.

>

>I don't know anything about making a forced air burner. Any books that

>describe how to make one (though I'd rather make something else)? Who

>is a good supplier for one that would work on a small crucible furnace?

>This is something else for my list of rare and hard to find items.

>Cynthia

>TX

Cynthia,

Get a Graingers catalog or go to a local Graingers outlet (they have all of

the stuff you need and are all over the country). Get a smallish ( like a

4C012-$38.00 on pg 2907 in catalog 386) and attach to 2-3 feet of 2" or 3"

black steel pipe (which becomes the blower/burner) when inserted into the

furnace. A moveable cover should be mfgrd. from some tin, wood or rigid

plastic and screwed onto the fan housing so the cover can be rotated over

the inlet hole to adjust the air flow. The fan can be welded, taped or

epoxied onto the 90 degree elbow on the end on the pipe. The fan I have

recommended is large enough for fire a 2-3 foot wide/high furnace, so a

smaller fan could be used for a smaller furnace. Hope this helps.

John

Return to Index


ANVIL AND ANVIL REPAIR CONTINUED: (See Also Vol. 1&2)

I'm the guy who most recently was asking about anvil repair. I found

yet another answer locally to my question, which I think may be worth

passing on to ya'll.

One of the criteria I hoped to meet was to eliminate pre-heating.

This would allow me to lay down a pass or two when I had time.

There is a rod that permits this: the Lincoln CRMN-15 rod. One of

our number here in Memphis has used this rod to repair several

anvils. Since he is by profession a research chemist, his time in

the shop is also limited, and he wanted these same criteria.

The Lincoln CRMN-15 rod is a work-hardening rod that does not require

preheating of the workpiece. It does require an underlayment if the

buildup is to be more than apx. 1/4 inch. The drill seems to be to

grind the base for the underlayment until very clean. Then use

McKay cushion rod or 7018 for the underlayment. I don't have the

number of the McKay rod, but am told that it is known under the

cushion rod description. Using either of these rods, build up to

within 1/4" of the desired level. Peen these layers as they are

laid. Then apply the more expensive CRMN-15 rod, peening each bead

as laid. Grind and polish.

This is what I am going to try. My welding isn't spectacular, so I

am going to practice on a scrap first. I am sure that my welding

will be better when I have finished with replacing about a third of

the face of a 225# Mousehole!

Marrin T. Fleet

Return to Index


TINNING:

"Dr. Stephen A. Bloom" writes

>You need a bar of solid tin, plumbers soldering paste, a wad of

>fiberglass insulation (pink stuff), a source of heat (not really too critical),

Just a couple of quick additions to Stephen's useful info on tinning

copper.

ISSN 0144-3143 Practical Hot Tinning - C.J. Thwaites International Tin

Research Institute has a reasonable description of this process and

offers some more traditional materials for rubbing in the tin - a wad of

hessian or cotton wool or block of cork dampened with flux and or sand.

For best results he advises total removal of old surface back to copper

before tinning. This book and information on potential suppliers of tin

should be available from:- Tin Research Institute inc. 1353 Perry St.

Ohio 43201 tel (614) 424 6200 / (hope this is up to date). E-mail me

direct for other countries. For items with soldered joints tie a damp

cloth around the joint to avoid going above the melting temperature. It

is recommended that the vessel be cooled by wiping with a damp cloth

after the tinning process is complete this avoids tarnishing.

It should be possible to obtain pure tin but I guess the problem around

the world these days is finding somewhere to buy less than a ton at a

time. Lead free plumbers solder is usually (but not always)an alloy of

tin with around 0.5 - 1.0% copper check Yellow Pages for Solder

Manufacturers also suppliers of materials to stained glass artists

either may have pure tin sticks. If you can locate a source of tin try

to obtain blowpipe sticks or a similar guage extruded form (about 5 -

7mm dia) rather than bars which will be harder to get started owing to

the extra bulk of metal and could lead to overheating of the vessel.

You can make blowpipe sticks from bar by running molten tin through a

small hole on to a steel sheet. Seemless steel cans with a hole around 3

- 4 mm is quite good once you get used to the speed to run at(When

handling molten tin make sure everything is completely dry to avoid

getting tinned yourself) I sell tin sticks but until someone can come up

with a way of e-mailing the stuff I think I'm probably a bit far away to

make this viable.

I have heard of people using tallow as a flux but this is not suitable

for vegetarians!

Geoff Treseder

Return to Index


FORGING FRUIT AND VEGETABLES:

Analytical Resources Inc. wrote:

> First time I've asked a question. Has anyone out there ever forged a chili pepper. I am a novice that happens to love peppers. Have tried to figure out how to reproduce a red pepper, but alas, little success. Help from cyberforge?

> John Hicks

> "Chilihead"

John-

It's about time you jump into the mix!!!!!! :o)

You will have the best results starting with tube or pipe. The size of

the finished pepper will dictate the starting size of pipe. Common sense

prevails, along with a little trial and error. A genuine item will help

for a guide. Robb Gunter has demo-ed this many times, do you want the

bell pepper or the elongated version? Either way you will start by

fullering or necking down a section into which you will insert a piece

of material for a stem. Continue to collapse the pipe until it grabs the

"stem". If you cut off the pipe above the necked down section you can

turn that into the little leaf part of the stem. To add some effect you

can use localized heat and push the stem and leaf section into the

pepper a little. Next you must decide if it is the "bell" or the

elongated shape your after. The elongated version requires some tapering

of the pipe towards the tip, you can forge weld or mig it on the tip.

When I saw Robb do it, he even ended up with some pieces of metal that

rattled around inside (like seeds)The bell needs to be necked like the

top, after totally collapsing it you kinda push it into itself(localized

heat again). You'll probably want to add some dents to the sides like

the real deal, they tend to cave in a little as they ripen. I'm sure I'm

not explaining this very well, but I hope it give you a starting point.

The more I think about it you probably don't want the bell pepper, but

who knows you might want to fill a cornacopia(sp?)

Happy Hammering-

Bill Roberts

Return to Index


DRILLING AND PUNCHING HOLES:

We make injection molds where I work and we go thru a lot of S7 and H13. S7

has a definite tendency to crack when cooled. I think H13 is great and use

it exclusively for hot tools. You can water cool it from a red heat and go

right back in the cut. I have a 2" wide chisel that is very thin and tapers

to a 1/32 edge. Under the treadle hammer, it will go thru a 1"x2" hot bar in

about 5-6 licks. However, be sure and use a soft cutting plate or you will

lose your edge.

Return to Index


BRAZING:

Have in the past used plain ol left over single strand copper wire, cut

it into little chunks about 1/4 inch long and bend a little to fit the

inside of the cup and more or less all around the inside edge. Use borax

as flux. Wire everything together so it won't slip, heat it till the

copper melts and quench. The quench seizes the copper, and washes most

of the flux off at the same time. Complicated shapes may have to be held

together with tongs or something heavy to stand the heat as the peices

will have to reach nearly uniform red for the copper to flow into all the

joints. May have to experiment a little to get the amount of wire right

so the joint fills, but the copper doesn't run all over.

Let me know how you make out.

Bob

Return to Index


HYDRAULIC FORGING PRESS:

Don Fogg sells them, you can visit this web page for more information at:

http://www.dfoggknives.com/forge.htm

Look for the book,"Build your own hydraulic forging press" By Dr. Jim Batson,

it is a great book to have if you want to build a forging press.

Tim

Return to Index


SUPER GLUE & SPLIT FINGERS:

Use "Superglue", the kind for gluing on fingernails, to glue splits in your fingers together. The fingernail kind is sterile and

safe for use on the body.

*************

Should you accidentally glue your fingers together or to something else,

you can get them loose without skin damage by doing the following. Spread

some household dishwashing detergent around the area and them work the skin

back and forth. The detergent will slowly seep in between the skin and the

glue and effect a seperation without damage. Just be patient and not be

too aggressive as you pull. (Vinegar should work too. Ron)

Larry Murdock

Return to Index


Compiled by Ron Reil

Edited With: AOLpress

©Golden Age Forge

5 Dec. 98